Initially announced as permanent, opposition rally in Bishkek began on November 2 and ended on November 9. The protest action was sparked by President Kurmanbek Bakiyev's reluctance to launch the constitutional reforms that would make Kyrgyzstan a presidential-parliamentary republic. Chuisk Governor Tursunbek Kulmurzayev, a prominent administrator and politician, was one of the first to back the demands put forth by the Movement For The Reforms. This support of the opposition and its demands cost Kulmurzayev his position. How come one of the leaders of the regional elite was ousted? Here is an interview with the ex-governor.

Ferghana.Ru: Tursunbek Nasipovich, what do you think happened in Bishkek in early November? What sparked these events in the first place?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: What transpired in Bishkek became a continuation of the March 2005 revolution. It was not a counter-revolution. Elected the president, Bakiyev promised no delays with the constitutional reforms. It was eighteen months ago. This year, we reminded him of his promises at least twice. When the second rally was under way, its participants demanded the reforms and spoke in defense of Prime Minister Felix Kulov who had been threatened by the late kingpin Rysbek Akmatbayev. It was on May 27, 2006. Leaders of the Movement For The Reforms demanded from Bakiyev amendment of the Constitution. The president gave his word that the matter would be brought to the attention of the Jogorku Kenesh, the parliament, when it returned from the summer vacation, i.e. on September 1. September passed with nothing to show for it, October followed. The Movement resolved to arrange another peace rally in November in order to remind the president of his promises. Bakiyev in his turn chose to resort to outright lies instead of keeping his word. He proved worse than Askar Akayev, you know. The opposition saw what was happening and understood that it was about to make the same old mistake.

It pains me to see that nothing really changed for the Kyrgyz people with Bakiyev in the driver's seat.

When the March events were taking place and I was the leader of the revolutionary movement in one of Kyrgyz regions, I promised the people that installation of the new president would set things right for the Kyrgyzes. Unfortunately, it never happened.

Ferghana.Ru: But the president has his own following. His supporters even staged a rally of their own.

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: This anti-rally only exposed weakness of Bakiyev's regime. It was mostly attended by budget sphere employees, many of them sympathizing with the opposition and its demands. They were compelled to participate for fear of losing their jobs. Their number went down noticeably in the matter of hours. Only 500 or so people remained in the square then, some of them akims [administrators], directors of state agencies, and even ministers of the Cabinet. It does not take an exceptionally perceptive person to guess that they were demonstrating their loyalty for fear of losing their positions.

Calls to overrun the White House and topple the regime could be heard in the course of the rally. Had Bakiyev persisted, this is what all of that might have resulted in. It was not easy for Movement leaders to prevent bloodshed and looting.

Ferghana.Ru: Did you meet with the president in person?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: I did. More than once, actually. I didn't talk of mistakes then, by the way. Being the governor and answering directly to the president, I was compelled to keep my emotions in check.

Forgetting subordination at one point, I asked him once to meet with the opposition leaders and listen to what they had to say on the situation. The negotiations did take place, you know. The authorities and the opposition met and agreed to coordinate their efforts in promotion of the reforms. They even agreed to pool efforts in work on a draft Constitution. The draft was ready soon after that. Bakiyev promised to offer it to the Jogorku Kenesh on November 2 and reassured the opposition that its adoption would only take a day, no more. What happened on November 2, however, left the opposition speechless. Instead of presenting the joint draft Constitution to the parliament, Bakiyev presented his own, the one that suggested the presidential republic. This document greatly extended the president's own powers and privileges. One of its clauses, for example, stipulated the president's direct jurisdiction over the Jogorku Kenesh. Some lawmakers hit the roof. That was how the national parliament ended up divided into two camps.

Ferghana.Ru: Amendments to the Constitution restrict presidential powers. Even the National Security Service (the former KGB) is to be answerable to the parliament now. All other personnel issues are to be handled by the prime minister. And what does it leave the president with?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: The opposition defeated the president. The draft Constitution agreed upon at the negotiations between the authorities and the opposition divided the powers between the president and the parliament evenly, fifty-fifty. When Bakiyev cheated, however, it changed everything, and the amendments to the Constitution altered the ratio of powers to 20 to 80. As of now, the president (with the Jogorku Kenesh's approval) will only appoint and fire prosecutor general, National Bank chairman, Auditing Commission chairman, and Central Election Commission chairman. All other staff issues are to be handled by the prime minister, and that includes appointment of district akims and regional governors, ministers, and directors of state agencies. The president of Kyrgyzstan is like the Her Majesty the Queen in Great Britain now. I'm not here to pin the blame for this state of affairs on him or his inner circle. Bakiyev only had to forward to the parliament the draft Constitution agreed upon with the opposition, and everything would have been all right. The Constitution we now have, however, proclaims Kyrgyzstan a parliamentary republic. The Jogorku Kenesh alone wields the power to hire and fire prime minister. Neither can the president lord it over lawmakers. He is only supposed to bow to their will and accept the prime minister they have selected. The premier in his turn will appoint governors and they - akims.

Ferghana.Ru: The president fired you as Chuisk governor before adoption of the new Constitution and yet you keep performing these functions all the same...

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: This is how it was. Director of the Presidential Administration Abyldayev called me on November 7 and said I had been relieved of my duties by the presidential decree. I took it in stride but I knew that the people would protest. It was the people, not Bakiyev, who had made me governor on March 24, 2005. The president only signed the decree afterwards which was but a formality.

I met with Bakiyev on November 6, the day before my dismissal. I also met with the director of the presidential administration and with the state secretary. I spoke to all of them of the necessity to meet with opposition leaders. Atambayev categorically refused at first, but he finally saw the light upon some contemplation and agreed to meet. The opposition demanded live air at the state TV. It took the Presidential Administration five hours to ponder the demand. Some officials did not object, others certainly did. In the long run, the president gave the opposition half an hour at KTR channel. The first demand was therefore met. I decided that another meeting with Atambayev wouldn't hurt. We met and I asked him to talk to the president again and persuade him to meet with opposition leaders. As for Bakiyev, I can only evaluate his reaction as a hysterical bout. He was screaming at his director of the presidential administration that he would brook no ultimatums from the Movement For The Reforms... I happened on Ahunov in the corridor, chairman of the Human Rights Commission, who had been trying to get an audience with the president for hours. I interceded on his behalf and he was told to go right in. He entered Bakiyev's office and stumbled out of it again barely two minutes later. He was seething with rage and indignation. I knew immediately that the dialogue had failed and decided to talk to Bakiyev. He received me at 7 p.m. I did my best to persuade the president to meet with the opposition but he was adamant. He kept saying that it would be a waste of time and effort, that it was his draft Constitution, not the opposition's that the referendum would eventually back. I said then that I was through with him and his team, walked out of the White House, joined the protesters, and demanded resignation of the president. I have always been and will always be with the people. As for Bakiyev's regime, it is no longer adequate.

A law-abiding person as I'm, I/m not supposed to keep performing my duties of course. On the other hand, there is the moral side to it too. The population of the region insists that I continue as the governor. A rally in my defense took place in front of the regional administration not long ago. Afraid that it might deteriorate into mass disturbances, I went out to the people. I talked to the protesters and placated them as best I could. It is the population that demands that I remain the governor. I do not think the people will put up with anyone else. It is my deputy who is currently the acting governor. The population of the region in the meantime is bombarding the presidential administration with the letters and cables in my support.

Ferghana.Ru: And what do you intend to do now?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: To tell you the truth, I'm so tired! Some rest is what I'd like at this point. People want me to stay, however. I asked for a leave, a week or two, from the protesters but they wouldn't hear of it.

Ferghana.Ru: Do you think the president will comply and rescind his order with regard to you?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: Let the president do his own thinking now.

Ferghana.Ru: Do you know your successor? Who is to be put in your place?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: On November 7, the presidential administration pondered the idea of appointing Jalbak Kazakbai, ex-director of an ore mining and processing enterprise. Even the decree appointing him was drafted but the president knew better than sign it. Wise of him. It turned out that this Kazakbai had spent nine years behind the bars. He was pardoned by Akayev's regime. It was Felix Kulov who suggested Kazakbai, his fellow inmate. They had shared one and same cell once.

Ferghana.Ru: A few words about Kulov then. So far as I know, you were one of the authors of the whole idea to establish the tandem of Bakiyev and Kulov...

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: It was Atambayev and yours truly who established this tandem. Now that I'm thoroughly disappointed in it and its performance, however, I feel free to open some cards and expose some of the White House intrigues.

When we were elevated to the corridors of power in the March Revolution last year, Kulov was in charge of law enforcement agencies and I was the National Security Service coordinator. Bakiyev was the prime minister prior to becoming acting president. It is common knowledge that all these changes notwithstanding, certain tension in the relations between south and north never abated. Trying to minimize it, we decided to make Kulov senior deputy premier. Since his release from jail hadn't been exactly legitimate, however, we decided to observe all formalities first. (Kulov had been released on revolutionaries' demands.) His case was forwarded to the Supreme Court of Kyrgyzstan on the initiative of the Prosecutor General's Office. The Supreme Court cleared his name last April and thus rehabilitated Kulov in the eyes of the people.

Presidential election was to take place in Kyrgyzstan on June 10, and Kulov was running for president. We wanted to nominate Atambayev but he declined the honor and said that the situation being what it was, we'd better support Bakiyev. There was a problem even with that, however, because Kulov was from the north and Bakiyev from the south. That's when it occurred to Atambayev and me that these two leaders should form a tandem. Atambayev talked to Kulov and I with Bakiyev. I told Bakiyev that we could make him the president but only if he gave his word to make Kulov the prime minister. Bakiyev agreed. Persuading Kulov took considerably longer because he kept refusing. The talked lasted a week. We told Kulov that he didn't stand a chance because he didn't speak Kyrgyz. He finally gave his consent. Cholpon Bayekova of the Constitutional Court was of great help to us then. She put all Bakiyev-Kulov accords on paper to preclude future misunderstanding. I showed the document to Bakiyev and Kulov several times because they wanted some things amended and corrected. Shortly speaking, we all went to Bakiyev on May 12, 2005. He was not alone. His advisors Danijar Usenov, Modumarov, Arynbayev, and Isabekov were present too. "I believe we agreed that nobody else was to be involved," I said. "This is something to be decided by the four of us - you, me, Kulov, and Atambayev. Kulov and you sign the document in our presence and we go public." I was enraged that Bakiyev had invited somebody else to be present, but he said that these were his trusted men, his team, and that he would not sign anything without consultations with them. I asked what teams he was talking about if Kulov had dropped from the race... In short, Bakiyev had his way. He handed a copy of the document to his advisors and the latter began studying it. Eventually I asked Bakiyev if he intended to sign the document or not. (He had already put his signature on it in the presence of the Constitutional Court chairperson.) One of Bakiyev's aides asked Bayekova if Atambayev was running for president too. "No, and I can give you a voucher if you want," she replied. It seemed to calm Bakiyev down. He signed the document. It happened at 11.45 p.m. I phoned Kulov and he arrived 20 minutes later. Bakiyev shook hands with Kulov and they parted. The news of the tandem was made public knowledge the following day. The election followed, Bakiyev became the president. He made Kulov the prime minister. We saw how mistaken we were only eighteen months after that. The tandem challenged the people. It is no longer needed.

Ferghana.Ru: What turn do you think the political life will take now? Will you join the opposition or try to remain the governor? And how do you envision your relations with the president now?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: As I see it, the government should resign now and the Jogorku Kenesh should appoint acting prime minister.

As for the president, I suspect that he took offense. I'd say he should arrange our meeting so that we could discuss the matter. It's politics, after all, things like that do happen. I stand for democratic changes. I've made my move. The president is no longer the final authority on my future.

Ferghana.Ru: Whoever has a penchant for betrayal must always be suspected of being treacherous as everyone knows. Bakiyev made promises but deceived the people. Do you think the people will vote for him again now?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: I'm not even sure that Bakiyev will retain his office to the end. Well, the people is politically wise now. It knows what it is that it needs. The newly adopted law permits the president to perform his duties pending expiration of his tenure in 2010. If the parliament elects a normal prime minister who chooses professionals for the government, if positive political and economic changes take place, then I suspect that the people will let Bakiyev alone for the remaining 3.5 years. If, however, Bakiyev begins his games all over again, if decisions are made in the matter they have been made so far, then the Kyrgyzes will demand his early resignation.

Ferghana.Ru: Are you saying that another revolution may take place?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: It is a possibility.

Ferghana.Ru: Bakiyev said at the joint press conference with Kulov that he did not contemplate persecution of the opposition. Some activists of the Movement For The Reforms, however, have already received summons to the National Security Service. Do you expect political harassment?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: I'm not afraid of anything. If the authorities decide to give it a try, they will make a big mistake. The people wouldn't put up with it. I do not think I have broken any rules. The Movement For The Reforms was not after a coup d'etat. It only wanted the president to keep his promises. Protesters dispersed as soon as the first demand was complied with. Had they wanted to topple the regime, they'd've already done so.

Ferghana.Ru: There are the rumors that Boris Berezovsky visited Bishkek when the rally was under way. What role did he play in the events this November?

Tursunbek Kulmurzayev: The Prosecutor General's Office contacted the Russian Interior Ministry and was told that Berezovsky had been in Kyrgyzstan indeed. His private jet landed in Bishkek on October 29. Berezovsky visited Issyk-Kul and the Semenov Gorge. There are even the rumors that he met with Bakiyev but the Kyrgyz leadership categorically denounces them.

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Diljaram Arkin (Bishkek), exclusive for Ferghana.Ru